in bathtubs full of
I have one problem with this confession. Loghain didn’t get his men killed. He saved them.
The men that died in Ostagar were lost the moment the Warden failed to light the beacon on time, possibly even in the moment Cailan decided on the plan. If Loghain had followed through on the plan and attacked the darkspawn, all he would have done is get his men killed and made the later battle against the Archdemon that much harder.
Loghain’s actions after Ostagar were wrong, but during? He was doing the job of a good general. He was making a hard decision, and chose the right option, even if it wasn’t the good one.
I don’t get why so many people fail to see this. Pretty much everything afterwards was a huge dick move, to say the least, but Ostagar? No. It’s a perfect showcase of the whole ‘the right choice is usually not the easy one’ thing.
In fact, it kind of bothers me how pretty much no characters in-game ever (or at least none immediately come to mind) acknowledge that it was the best outcome for a shitty situation. Even those who support Loghain seem to go, ‘yeah, Ostagar? Shit thing to do.’
I especially hate that at no point is there an option to agree with his retreat. I would’ve at least liked, in one of the post-recruitment talks, to be able to say something along the lines of, ‘I understand you did what you had to, at Ostagar. Everything else you did still makes you a complete asshole, though.’ It’s particularly jarring to me when playing a Cousland, since it’s not too out there to assume they would have gotten at least a basic education in war tactics, so for them to only be able to say ‘YOU SHOULD’VE TOTALLY CHARGED IN THERE AND HAVE YOUR MEN SLAUGHTERED’ is a bit… yeah.
Mostly the characters that argue with his actions seem to be mad not because of the soldiers, but because of Cailan and that annoys me so much. A) because Cailan was only one man and ot really more important than anyone else and B) becasue Cailan chose to be down there. He had plenty of people telling him that it was a stupid idea but he decided to fight anyway. His death was not Loghain’s fault.
I’m kind of hoping that Inquisition gives us hard choices like Loghain’s. I’d love to see them go into how, if you are in charge of an army, at some point you are going to make a choice that leave some of your men dead and that may have been the best choice available. It may just help people empathise with him a bit more. I doubt it, but I can live in hope.
i would like to say that i don’t remember Loghain ever explaining his actions as having this reason. what he does go on about is Cailans alliance with the Orlisians, he talks about that allot. besides at the war meeting people agreed that is was the best plan, and Loghain had no better plan. it only makes sense to sacrifice men if saving them would give you a strategic disadvantage. but Loghain had the advantage in the fight. they were never going to outnumber the darkspawn, there were never going to be a better situations to defeat them. at least none that Loghain could know about, it was their best chance. to me it seems that Loghain only left because he failed to see how big a threat the darkspawn really are. i agree that the right choice might not be the “good” choice. but when you have a strategic advantage and no better position to withdraw to you should take the advantage you have. besides he lost a lot of men abandoning them men that could have helped later.. if he hadn’t decided to abandon them before the battle why didn’t he push for the reinforcement from red cliff. besides if he needed the beacon, that means he had no way of knowing how things were going at the battle so he had no way of knowing that the beacon was late and also he couldn’t know whether it would be hopeless to charge the flank or not, that mean that he made his decision to retreat regardless of how the battle was going.
I hate to bring in the novels in a discussion about the game. but in the stolen throne Loghain often choose to stay and fight and take the advantages he can get when everyone else wants to flee. i think it show that he is not the same man anymore and that now politics have dulled the edge of his brilliant military mind.
i definitely cant decide that it was military sound to retreat with nothing but the information from the cut scene.if anyone have more information that leads them to believe otherwise i would like to be proven wrong. there is just no way of knowing whether they could have won Ortega or not as far as i can see.
except loghain repeatedly states that the retreat preserved ferelden’s forces instead of squandering them in a battle that was already lost
he tells Wynne during RtO: “What you forget is that your king was beyond saving. The darkspawn would either have had him or have had us all. Do you really believe we would have been so much better off had I chosen otherwise?”
and then there was this banter:
Loghain: And I had no magic that could break those darkspawn ranks. But perhaps you think I ought to have tried, regardless. No doubt, the lives of mere soldiers are cheap in the eyes of the Circle.
Wynne: And what of all the soldiers who died with their king? Their lives were worth nothing to you.
Loghain: You think so, do you? I knew their names, mage, and where they came from. I knew their families.
Loghain: I do not know how you mages determine the value of things, but they were my men. I know exactly how much I lost that day.
can people who’ve never recruited loghain stop making definitive statements about his motivations pls
hufflepuff values loyalty and fairness and friendship and hard work and drive and determination and love and acceptance and kindness and if that sounds shitty to you then get out
Im all for girls drawing and writing self indulgent bullshit, especially considering about 97% of the media around today is just men writing and drawing self indulgent bullshit
there’s a difference between character development and completely changing your character’s personalities with no explanation